Curse

quickmonty · Nov 25, 2005, 05:38 PM // 17:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ado

The fact that things are possible doesn't mean that it's a good thing to do. It's also possible to rob a shop, everyone knows it's a bad thing to do so you don't. (at least I hope

)

Robbing a shop in RL is illegal ..... running in GW isn't!

fgarvin · Nov 25, 2005, 05:53 PM // 17:53

Running is nothing more than just another way to play the game. Some people farm, some run, some only PvP, some only PvE, some only participate in FoW/UW runs, some sell their services to get a client to the Forge Master for FoW armor or through the desert missions to speed up ascension and some....(insert activity here). We all purchased this game to be entertained, and for the million games sold, there are a million ways to be entertained. For a while my Ele gave everything she found away at the Great Northern Wall, and would run the recipient of the item for free through the mission. My W/Mo farms to make money for the other seven characters I have and my lowly lvl 7 Necro just runs around outside AC when I get bored.

Running is not bad. It is just another way to enjoy the game...until they nerf it...

Dax · Nov 25, 2005, 05:58 PM // 17:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by fgarvin

Running is nothing more than just another way to play the game. Some people farm, some run, some only PvP, some only PvE, some only participate in FoW/UW runs, some sell their services to get a client to the Forge Master for FoW armor or through the desert missions to speed up ascension and some....(insert activity here). We all purchased this game to be entertained, and for the million games sold, there are a million ways to be entertained. For a while my Ele gave everything she found away at the Great Northern Wall, and would run the recipient of the item for free through the mission. My W/Mo farms to make money for the other seven characters I have and my lowly lvl 7 Necro just runs around outside AC when I get bored.

Running is not bad. It is just another way to enjoy the game...until they nerf it...

Agreed, although you can say that about anything...doesn't necessarily make it right or wrong.
I'm sure that buying gold outside the game for some is 'just the way they play the game'.

fgarvin · Nov 25, 2005, 07:13 PM // 19:13

I do have my misgivings about purchasing gold with real-world dollars. I'm no expert on the EULA, but I've read that buying is not against the rules, but selling is. I can't say that I honestly know, but I am against it. There are those who have honestly earned the 500k they spent on a "perfect" fellblade and then there are those who have not. I can't believe that having so much money floating around has not negatively affected the economy at least in some small measure.

Put simply, if it can be done entirely in-game, then it legal and does count as another way of playing the game....buying gold on E-Bay can not be done in-game...therefore its a no-no...regardless of the EULA.

Dax · Nov 25, 2005, 08:00 PM // 20:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by fgarvin

I do have my misgivings about purchasing gold with real-world dollars. I'm no expert on the EULA, but I've read that buying is not against the rules, but selling is. I can't say that I honestly know, but I am against it. There are those who have honestly earned the 500k they spent on a "perfect" fellblade and then there are those who have not. I can't believe that having so much money floating around has not negatively affected the economy at least in some small measure.

Put simply, if it can be done entirely in-game, then it legal and does count as another way of playing the game....buying gold on E-Bay can not be done in-game...therefore its a no-no...regardless of the EULA.

No, I agree I believe it's against the EULA. I was just illustrating the point that people can rationalize anyway they want. If one played EQ2, they have a service for buying stuff outside the game. I am against that, but for some people that's the way they play.

Putting in running (not the running but the fact you can drag anyone through) was a mistake, that's my opinion. I will speak out against it but I have to live with it if I wanna play GW.

BTW cool avatar pic.

fgarvin · Nov 25, 2005, 08:43 PM // 20:43

Oingo Boingo...one of the best groups ever...Danny Elfman is a genius. Not cover art, just an old logo.

Age · Nov 26, 2005, 12:17 AM // 00:17

Maybe it is time to cut down on it for a while as it is hard for Warrior to get picked in missions.

strcpy · Nov 26, 2005, 09:19 AM // 09:19

There are two different aspects here: good/bad and legal/illegal.

Since we have accepted real world examples, lets look at free speech. Most of here accept that this should be legal, however good or bad? Well, free speech covers someone asking for money and feeding homeless people (good), it also covers the KKK member calling minorities inferior (bad). You can't have legal free speech without allowing both - it's regulated if you start regulating it and no longer free.

To some extent running seems to be that way. Running a new player to droks to get the best aromor to "own" in the ascalon arena is bad. However running a player who has had five chars beat the game but wants to unlock a few skills id good. Thus we find running to be legal, but both good and bad, like speech. In this case there could even be the neutral case of a single player only (henchies) wanting to make the game easier (there are many of us, though I will not run a char ahead of one that made it there in the normal means). Yes, it changes the game, but "ruin" in single player only games is in the eye of the beholder. I've had as much fun as my w/mo that was run to droks as my mo/me that made it there by normal means.

The question is if the bad is so bad that you screw the good players, in speech that happens in cases such as yelling "fire" in a theatre. Personally I would say no, plus for most of the bad of running there are other fixes (such as not allowing droks armor in low level arena's). You just need to pay attention - if you make the litmus test "things the majority do not want to do" then most likely something you like will get removed and you will have noone to blame but yourself, once you agree that regulating actions that are "good", a "good" action you do will be regulated. That's why a fairly free system has the most people happy.

Laylooh Cheyenne · Nov 26, 2005, 10:26 AM // 10:26

i talked to someone that has a running only character and she told me she makes about 150k a night if not more, i was shocked then asked her if she was a famer =X that didnt go to well in fact, she said she uses the gold to help out guildies with weapons/armor and stuff.... hey i got ran to some places, droks(spelling?), the dessert and plenty of other places, and didnt pay a dime. ^^ my guild is full of awsome people who are very helpful, and understanding to nooblets like me who have been playing GW for about 15-20days so far =P when i was runned to droks there was one other person in guild that needed an alt to get there to so we all (maxed party) ran there....well i was on the snowy ground sun bathing most of the time but it was fun. if u want to spend the gold to get somewhere go ahead ....i just wouldnt pay in full up front. ive already heard of people getting "scammed " and stuff trying to buy their way into being runned into new towns and such .....but play at ur own risk. if u get scammed , thats ur dam fault =P maybe u should ask a guildie to help u get runned there instead of paying someone^^ ne one need a n/me runner? lol jk! gop FTW!

Scorpion Boy · Nov 26, 2005, 10:30 AM // 10:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willy Rockwell

I am disappointed by the prevalance and acceptance of runners in the game. A runner takes money from players to guarantee to get them to their next destination without having to fight all the way. In fact, people using runners don't have to do anything except stay online. As soon as the runner makes it to the next town, the client has arrived.

In mountain climbing there is a practice called "short-roping". If I want to get to the top of Mt. Everest but cannot make it by myself, a Sherpa guide will tie himself to me and drag me to the top. However, even with short-roping I have to place one foot in front of the other all the way up and down.

I have seen level 9 players in Ring of Fire and Thunderhead. They got there by hiring runners. But what is the point? They are not learning skills and would be of no help in a group. In Beacon's Perch most of the people are looking for runners to get them to Droknar's Forge, which is after Ascension. And just what do they hope to do in Droknar's, fit in with groups of infused veterans?

I wish any character who used a runner more than twice would automatically receive a brand on his forehead that reads "lamer". It is the challenge of the quest that makes the game fun, you get no satisfaction from being carried from town to town.

Ok that's my opinion. What's yours?

Then im a big ''LAMER'' i did my first char normal but after the running PLAGUE started!!

Bord · Nov 26, 2005, 01:26 PM // 13:26

The problem is not the players/runners but the game itself. I just ascended a new character, a mesmer. It is my sixth or seventh (I have a second account) and I let it partially run to some towns. I fought f.i. from Maguuma Oasis to Augury Rock, but after that somebody ran me. I'm not going to fight my butt again through all the missions and quests; the Chrystall dessert is walking, fighting, walking, fighting etc. I have done that twice; I have seen it. I haven't paid. I have a game-friend and we run each others characters to some towns.
The problem is that it is easier to find a runner than a serious group who will set out to a new town or outpost.
Suggestion? Less monsters and mobs and more smaller side-quests with good droppings, so you can, whatever build you have, move from a to b, But to use your fighting skills and gain XP, you have to form a group to hunt for a mob.

Dax · Nov 26, 2005, 04:45 PM // 16:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bord

The problem is not the players/runners but the game itself.

I agree, the game shouldn't allow people at any level to be dragged through

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bord

I just ascended a new character, a mesmer. It is my sixth or seventh (I have a second account) and I let it partially run to some towns. I fought f.i. from Maguuma Oasis to Augury Rock, but after that somebody ran me. I'm not going to fight my butt again through all the missions and quests; the Chrystall dessert is walking, fighting, walking, fighting etc. I have done that twice; I have seen it. I haven't paid. I have a game-friend and we run each others characters to some towns.

But isn't that the gameplay?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bord

The problem is that it is easier to find a runner than a serious group who will set out to a new town or outpost.

If there wasn't people running, would there not be more people willing to group in these areas? Maybe that's the problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bord

Suggestion? Less monsters and mobs and more smaller side-quests with good droppings, so you can, whatever build you have, move from a to b, But to use your fighting skills and gain XP, you have to form a group to hunt for a mob.

I agree somewhat, my suggestions would be level restricted armor (to stop lowbies from running), and maybe a character class that can help a character get through tough area's..... maybe someone that can render the group invisable or mask thier scent. The success rate would be varied so maybe you'd still have an encounter to make it atleast challenging. Dragging people through as it is now seems rather sloppy and more of an exploit than part of the gameplay. Atleast we can come to some halfweay point that will make both the runners/ anti-runners happy.

Guardian of the Light · Nov 26, 2005, 11:26 PM // 23:26

lol you copied my idea of a debate

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=82375

I'm neutral on running. I don't really care if there is some lvl 8 noob in The Ring of Fire as long as hes not in my group. Then again if they make a large group of griffons to block runners I won't mind it

.

Sir Loino Beef · Nov 27, 2005, 11:43 AM // 11:43

Now for a point of view from a runner:

1-I started running after the patch when farming became less "productive" but I still farm occasionally. I enjoy running, and learning all the areas to be run is a skill in itself and takes time to learn and once learned takes time to do-this is why I charge. I do not scam but know of others that do and have had it happen to me-not only as a runner, but while being run. You roll the dice-you take your chances.

2- I do not make "inordinate amounts of money"-mainly because most people being run are in a hurry to get to where they want to go and will not wait for a full party. If I make them wait, there are usually enough runners to take them right away. In addition, the amount of runners running cheaper, for tips or for free knocks down my asking price. I take whom I can get when I can get them.

3- I do not agree with running noobs so I keep my prices high and that does "filter" somewhat- but there's still no guarantees. People lie,like it or not and you can't "eyeball" who your client is in the chat areas.

4- Running someone from Ascalon to Lion's Arch for 3K (which takes about an hour by the way) is no more a ripoff than finding a Tanzit's Cleaver on a drop and selling it for 50K. No matter how you make your money in GW, it's all based on supply and demand (as in real life) and the basis is greed and capitalism(shudder).

The bottom line is-why the debate? No matter what the topic in this game, there are good and bad points to it. If you don't like it-don't do it. Just because some noob bought his money and paid for the run to Drok's and bought his or her armor and is a level 3-doesn't mean you have to add them to your party. Eventually they have no recourse and go back to leveling the right way, armor or not.

Dax · Nov 27, 2005, 06:25 PM // 18:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Loino Beef

The bottom line is-why the debate? No matter what the topic in this game, there are good and bad points to it. If you don't like it-don't do it. Just because some noob bought his money and paid for the run to Drok's and bought his or her armor and is a level 3-doesn't mean you have to add them to your party. Eventually they have no recourse and go back to leveling the right way, armor or not.

Because that's why god gave us forums

You bring up some good points. I didn't quote them all because of space, but although I disagree with running people through you are right that you can ignore it all. This is coming from someone who plays mostly solo on occation though, as I have given up expecting this is going to be a MMO with any sort of depth or goals.

Slade xTekno · Nov 27, 2005, 07:15 PM // 19:15

I don't think that those who are paying for their runs are passing any areas they haven't played before on another character. After all, where do they get the money to pay, then?

Dax · Nov 27, 2005, 08:25 PM // 20:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slade xTekno

I don't think that those who are paying for their runs are passing any areas they haven't played before on another character. After all, where do they get the money to pay, then?

Ebay, IGE, Guild...ect ect. Plus there are those who do it for free,

Slade xTekno · Nov 27, 2005, 09:35 PM // 21:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dax

Ebay, IGE, Guild...ect ect. Plus there are those who do it for free,

Yes, and I assume those who are playing their first time through know the locations that the runners are advertising. [/sarcasm]